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expired Posted by redvibez • Jul 7, 2024
expired Posted by redvibez • Jul 7, 2024

Crucial T500 2TB Gen4 NVMe M.2 Internal Gaming SSD, Up to 7400MB/s, Laptop & Desktop Compatible $138.99 @ Amazon

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Amazon has Crucial T500 2tb on sale for $138.99
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CK2TC9XQ

Microcenter
https://www.microcenter.com/produ...ternal_SSD

Newegg
https://www.newegg.com/crucial-2t...efdaf3409e

Best Buy
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/cruc...Id=6566097

Walmart
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Crucia...5073229417

Crucial store
https://www.crucial.com/ssd/t500/...08020340:s

B&H Photos
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/pr...UqEALw_wcB



Crucial T500 2TB Gen4 NVMe M.2 Internal Gaming SSD, Up to 7400MB/s, Laptop & Desktop Compatible

LIGHTNING SPEEDS: Get incredible performance with sequential reads/writes up to 7,400/7,000MB/s and random read/writes up to 1.18M/1.44M IOPs
COMPATIBLE: Ready for performance with your laptop, desktop or workstation, the T500 installs easily in your M.2 slot
ULTIMATE GAMING: Load games up to 16% faster and get faster texture renders and less CPU utilization with Microsoft DirectStorage
CONTENT CREATION: Get up to 42% faster performance in content creation apps, run heavy workloads, and render photos or videos faster

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CK2TC9XQ
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Amazon has Crucial T500 2tb on sale for $138.99
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CK2TC9XQ

Microcenter
https://www.microcenter.com/produ...ternal_SSD

Newegg
https://www.newegg.com/crucial-2t...efdaf3409e

Best Buy
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/cruc...Id=6566097

Walmart
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Crucia...5073229417

Crucial store
https://www.crucial.com/ssd/t500/...08020340:s

B&H Photos
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/pr...UqEALw_wcB



Crucial T500 2TB Gen4 NVMe M.2 Internal Gaming SSD, Up to 7400MB/s, Laptop & Desktop Compatible

LIGHTNING SPEEDS: Get incredible performance with sequential reads/writes up to 7,400/7,000MB/s and random read/writes up to 1.18M/1.44M IOPs
COMPATIBLE: Ready for performance with your laptop, desktop or workstation, the T500 installs easily in your M.2 slot
ULTIMATE GAMING: Load games up to 16% faster and get faster texture renders and less CPU utilization with Microsoft DirectStorage
CONTENT CREATION: Get up to 42% faster performance in content creation apps, run heavy workloads, and render photos or videos faster

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CK2TC9XQ

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Model: Crucial T500 2 TB Solid State Drive, M.2 Internal, PCI Express NVMe, PCI Express NVMe 4.0

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Jul 7, 2024
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mihscr
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I know the low SSD prices of yesteryear are long gone, but I don't see anything special about paying $140 for 2TB. Nothing to write home about, IMO, even for a Crucial piece. But, then again, I use my PC for gaming, so SSD performance is not as crucial of a factor.

Edit: To clarify, SSD performance tiers and the presence of DRAM etc. have almost no impact on PC gaming. Tests run by reputable outlets have shown that, even between SATA (capped at 600 MB/s) and NVMe SSDs, differences in gaming performance and loading times are (1) insignificant and (2) unnoticeable to the user.
Last edited by mihscr July 7, 2024 at 06:41 PM.
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PC games rarely uses the ssd sata speed, let along nvme speed. the api calls in most the game engines are limited to about 500Mbps, often around half of that (check your game console, or even windows resource monitor). anything above SATA3 speed is wasted. there is a lot of packing and unpacking compressed file when it comes to game loading, most time are taken by the processing and copying to and from CPU to Memory and GPU. new api such as direct storage that introduced last year was meant to take advantage of GPU's parallel process for processing compressed files for faster storage , but i don't know any game that utilize that yet.

which is to say, at this moment, paying premium for nvme speed for games, is a complete waste of money. you can have the slowest SSD vs fastest gen 4 NVME, and you game loading time difference will be no where as significant as the spec difference, if there is a difference at all.
Last edited by seanleeforever July 7, 2024 at 12:45 PM.
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redvibez
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Quote from seanleeforever :
PC games rarely uses the ssd speed, let along nvme speed. the api calls in most the game engines are limited to about 500Mbps, often around half of that (check your game console, or even windows resource monitor). anything above SATA3 speed is wasted. there is a lot of packing and unpacking compressed file when it comes to game loading, most time are taken by the processing and copying to and from CPU to Memory and GPU. new api such as direct storage that introduced last year was meant to take advantage of GPU's parallel process for processing compressed files for faster storage , but i don't know any game that utilize that yet.

which is to say, at this moment, paying premium for nvme speed for games, is a complete waste of money. you can have the slowest SSD vs fastest gen 4 NVME, and you game loading time difference will be no where as significant as the spec difference, if there is a difference at all.
In addition to gaming, I also use my computer for data analysis and machine learning with my own database stored locally so the R/W speeds appeal to me.

There was a recent $135 980 pro 2tb w/ heatsink deal that was very popular so if anyone missed that, this Crucial is closely priced and even has better specs to justify it.

My motherboard has M2 heat sinks so this deal was slick to me cause I need one sooner than later.
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Quote from frerk :
For today and what it is, this is a good price. I don't know why that's so hard to accept. Living in last year's prices is meaningless. There are many SATA III SSDs of this capacity that cost the same or more so "not paying premium" isn't terribly meaningful either. Maybe some Fanxiang or other less desirable brands will have savings if you're in to that kind of thing. I'll pay an extra $10-20 for a better brand hard drive any day of the week.
If you're looking for a decent price per GB, you can get reputable brands for $100+ right now.

If you need the extra, mega, superduper premium performance for productivity use cases that require fast reads/writes, then sure, this might be what you're looking for, given the current market.

PS: Just spotted a similarly specced MSI Spatium M482 2TB for $109 + an extra 10% off ($98): https://us-store.msi.com/PC-Compo...Me-M.2-2TB
Last edited by mihscr July 7, 2024 at 12:32 PM.
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Quote from redvibez :
In addition to gaming, I also use my computer for data analysis and machine learning with my own database stored locally so the R/W speeds appeal to me.

There was a recent $135 980 pro 2tb w/ heatsink deal that was very popular so if anyone missed that, this Crucial is closely priced and even has better specs to justify it.

My motherboard has M2 heat sinks so this deal was slick to me cause I need one sooner than later.
There absolutely are use cases that can take advantage of the faster storage speed. I was just saying the name of those product, gaming, happens to be one that actually aren't impacted nearly as much aside from initial file transfer when you move content from old drive to new drive
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redvibez
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Quote from mihscr :
If you're looking for a decent price per GB, you can get reputable brands for $100+ right now.

If you need the extra, mega, superduper premium performance for productivity use cases that require fast reads/writes, then sure, this might be what you're looking for, given the current market.

PS: Just spotted a similarly specced MSI Spatium M482 2TB for $109 + an extra 10% off ($98): https://us-store.msi.com/PC-Compo...Me-M.2-2TB
That M482 is a nice price but I believe the m482's are DRAM-less and since I'll be moving large files like 4k movies and databases, the DRAM cache helps.

DRAM-less storage tend to be slower and less expensive, useful if one is only concerned about productivity software and web browsing. One should be getting ssd with DRAM cache if one wishes to game.
Last edited by redvibez July 7, 2024 at 01:45 PM.
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Quote from redvibez :
That M482 is a nice price but I believe the m482's are DRAM-less and since I'll be moving large files like 4k movies and databases, the DRAM cache helps.

DRAM-less storage tend to be slower and less expensive, useful if one is only concerned about productivity software and web browsing.
Understandable...

Quote from redvibez :
One should be getting ssd with DRAM cache if one wishes to game.
I will add one correction, if you'll allow me—the fact that PC gaming is barely affected by SSD speeds/performance or the presence of DRAM etc. Gaming performance and load times are insignificantly different (and unnoticeable to the end user) between SATA and NVMe SSDs.

Edited for clarity.
Last edited by mihscr July 7, 2024 at 08:07 PM.
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Quote from redvibez :
That M482 is a nice price but I believe the m482's are DRAM-less and since I'll be moving large files like 4k movies and databases, the DRAM cache helps.

DRAM-less storage tend to be slower and less expensive, useful if one is only concerned about productivity software and web browsing. One should be getting ssd with DRAM cache if one wishes to game.
DRAM isn't used for caching user data in SSD. that's a misconception for people who has no idea how flash memory works.
DRAM was used for caching user data in HDD.

you are referring to the SLC caching, which is a controller function that all drive do nowadays.

DRam is used to temporarily store mapping data of which block of information is stored at which flash cell (because flash cell works better when multiple cells are written in parallel, but that means data are scattered around your entire drive). as you moving data around, that mapping has to be constantly updated. due to the faster speed, dram is a more desire medium for this job. when a ssd/nvme boots up, its mapping data is copied from flash cell to dram, and update to the drive data is done in the dram and then write into the flash.

for dramless drives, they make use of host memory buffer (HMB), so the mapping content is copied and manipulated in the host memory instead of on board memory. it could be an issue if you are on a OS that doesn't support HMB, but HMB is standard as of nvme 1.2.

in modern day OS like windows that support HMB, you are likely not going to find any meaningful difference between dram vs dramless drives in performance. any performance separation is due to the controller and flash themselves, not the dram portion.

dram is more important for Sata SSD, as there isn't a HMB like standard for SATA, updating the mapping data and rewrite of that information in flash not only reduce the drive performance, but also the cell life.
Last edited by seanleeforever July 7, 2024 at 07:09 PM.
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Quote from mihscr :
If you're looking for a decent price per GB, you can get reputable brands for $100+ right now.

If you need the extra, mega, superduper premium performance for productivity use cases that require fast reads/writes, then sure, this might be what you're looking for, given the current market.

PS: Just spotted a similarly specced MSI Spatium M482 2TB for $109 + an extra 10% off ($98): https://us-store.msi.com/PC-Compo...Me-M.2-2TB
Is the msi m482 be good for gaming?
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redvibez
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Quote from seanleeforever :
DRAM isn't used for caching user data in SSD. that's a misconception for people who has no idea how flash memory works.
DRAM was used for caching user data in HDD.

you are referring to the SLC caching, which is a controller function that all drive do nowadays.

DRam is used to temporarily store mapping data of which block of information is stored at which flash cell (because flash cell works better when multiple cells are written in parallel, but that means data are scattered around your entire drive). as you moving data around, that mapping has to be constantly updated. due to the faster speed, dram is a more desire medium for this job. when a ssd/nvme boots up, its mapping data is copied from flash cell to dram, and update to the drive data is done in the dram and then write into the flash.

for dramless drives, they make use of host memory buffer (HMB), so the mapping content is copied and manipulated in the host memory instead of on board memory. it could be an issue if you are on a OS that doesn't support HMB, but HMB is standard as of nvme 1.2.

in modern day OS like windows that support HMB, you are likely not going to find any meaningful difference between dram vs dramless drives in performance. any performance separation is due to the controller and flash themselves, not the dram portion.

dram is more important for Sata SSD, as there isn't a HMB like standard for SATA, updating the mapping data and rewrite of that information in flash not only reduce the drive performance, but also the cell life.
My source seems to disagree and it seems pretty reputable.

https://www.xda-developers.com/ho...20for%20it.

They say that loading benefits "immensely" from using DRAM cache.

I think DRAM on the drive benefits writes more than reads. Gaming is extremely read-heavy, and reads are cached in system memory anyways. Since I use it for both read and write heavy purposes, the DRAM is what I'd want, I think.

But I don't really know honestly. Perhaps they are somewhat similar in performance and some people find that small difference significant.
Last edited by redvibez July 7, 2024 at 07:27 PM.
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R3DTR1X
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I am waiting til Prime Day hoping I can get a 4TB for under $200
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redvibez
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Quote from R3DTR1X :
I am waiting til Prime Day hoping I can get a 4TB for under $200
Me too! I'm hoping for a 2tb at $100
Last edited by redvibez July 7, 2024 at 07:32 PM.
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Quote from redvibez :
My source seems to disagree and it seems pretty reputable.

https://www.xda-developers.com/ho...20for%20it.

They say that loading benefits "immensely" from using DRAM cache.

I think DRAM on the drive benefits writes more than reads. Gaming is extremely read-heavy, and reads are cached in system memory anyways. Since I use it for both read and write heavy purposes, the DRAM is what I'd want, I think.

But I don't really know honestly. Perhaps they are somewhat similar in performance and some people find that small difference significant.
Not everything written there is right, just ask you this : if dram is used for data caching, at 7000MBps, how much ram is needed to cache one second of write data? 7G. And how much is your dram on those drives?

And if you just continue reading the HMB section of the article you quoted,
"This approach leverages the high-speed and non-volatile nature of system's RAM to achieve benefits that are similar to a dedicated DRAM cache on the SSD."

conclusion aside (which is correct), system ram (and dram) is very much volatile, that's why a sudden power off can erase your data in memory, and that's why data center's SSD have a build in capacitor to make sure mapping data is written back to the flash before power off.

everyone can be a tech writer nowadays, even ones without basic knowledge of computers hardware
Last edited by seanleeforever July 7, 2024 at 07:32 PM.
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redvibez
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Quote from seanleeforever :
Not everything written there is right, just ask you this : if dram is used for data caching, at 7000MBps, how much ram is needed to cache one second of write data? 7G. And how much is your dram on those drives?

And if you just continue reading the HMB section of the article you quoted,
"This approach leverages the high-speed and non-volatile nature of system's RAM to achieve benefits that are similar to a dedicated DRAM cache on the SSD."

conclusion aside (which is correct), system ram (and dram) is very much volatile, that's why a sudden power off can erase your data in memory, and that's why data center's SSD have a build in capacitor to make sure mapping data is written back to the flash before power off.

everyone can be a tech writer nowadays, even ones without basic knowledge of computers hardware
Volatility aside, I'm confused, so you're saying that the article's conclusion, which is that one should get DRAM ssd if they want to build a pc that can game, is correct?

Or is the DRAM less MSI one okay?
Last edited by redvibez July 7, 2024 at 07:41 PM.
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